Standard processors will not have you. PayPal, Stripe, Square and Shopify Payments all exclude vape and e-cigarette retail under their acceptable use policies, and if you do trade on them, you usually find out the hard way when the closure email arrives.
A vape merchant account is a card-processing account from a bank that understands the vape industry and the challenges of processing payments within it. Pricing is higher because vape carries more chargebacks, more regulation, and age-verification obligations you don't have to think about in normal retail. Done right, it's a stable, long-term relationship. Done wrong, it's a few weeks of processing followed by a settlement hold.
This page is for UK and European vape retailers, wholesalers and independent brands who need card payments to work, money to settle, and an end to the cycle of bank reviews that traps so many merchants in this industry.
If CBD is a meaningful share of your revenue, the approval process is different enough that we cover it separately — see our CBD payment gateway page.
Merchant Advice is an independent broker that places vape merchants with UK and EU banks willing to take the application. If you want to check your approval chances before you apply anywhere, speak to a specialist for an honest assessment rather than a sales pitch.
Specialist providers for UK and EU vape merchant accounts
These are providers we route UK and European vape retailers to, depending on volume, channel mix and product scope.
| Provider | Why they fit vape retailers | |
|---|---|---|
| Cashflows | UK acquirer with FCA authorisation and direct Visa and Mastercard principal membership. Workable for vape merchants with clean processing history and a tight age-verification setup at checkout. Mastercard SMR scheme registration handled where the product mix requires it. Suits mid-volume retailers and ecommerce stores that need a UK-settled acquirer relationship. | Compare rates |
| Trust Payments | Combined gateway and acquirer with MFSA and FCA licensing. Useful for vape retailers running both online and in-store, since the same relationship covers ecommerce, POS terminals and unattended payments. Multi-currency settlement is available for retailers shipping into EU markets. Approvals land quickly when documentation arrives complete on day one. | Compare rates |
| DNA Payments | UK acquirer with vape appetite where the merchant has a stable card-not-present history. Particularly workable for omnichannel vape retailers who need card machines alongside an ecommerce gateway. Settlement is UK-clearing, and the underwriting team is direct rather than routed through ISO intermediaries. | Compare rates |
| Specialist high-risk acquirer (EU) | For higher-volume vape retailers, retailers with prior terminations, or product mixes that include disposables under heavier scrutiny, an EU-licensed high-risk acquirer is often the right placement. Expect higher headline rates than a UK acquirer, balanced by greater openness, faster underwriting for declined applications, and explicit scheme registration. | Compare rates |
| Gateway-only partner with high-risk acquirer routing | Useful when the merchant has an existing ecommerce platform integration they want to keep, or needs a fallback gateway for resilience. The gateway is paired with a vape-friendly acquirer behind it. Fits retailers already running on platforms like WooCommerce, Magento or BigCommerce who do not want to migrate the front end. | Compare rates |
We do not rank these. Fit depends on volume, history, channel mix and product scope, and the right placement for a brand-new retailer is rarely the right placement for an established merchant migrating from a closed standard-processor account.
What a vape merchant account is
A vape merchant account is a card-processing account for businesses selling e-cigarettes, vape kits, e-liquids, pods and accessories. The bank handles it through a separate high-risk underwriting process rather than the standard fast onboarding — and that's what changes the pricing, the reserve and what you need to evidence to get approved.
The mechanics are the same as any merchant account. You have a contract with an acquiring bank that's a member of Visa and Mastercard. The bank settles card payments into your business account, charges a rate per transaction, and carries the credit risk if you fail or run into chargeback trouble. For online sales, a payment gateway sits in front of the bank — moving card data securely from your checkout to the bank.
The difference for vape retailers is who is willing to take you on, and on what terms. Standard processors all exclude vape in their terms of service — if you trade on them, you trade on borrowed time. A high-risk vape account writes vape into the contract on day one, and prices for what vape actually costs the bank in disputes and oversight.
| Capability | Standard processor account (Stripe, PayPal, Square, Shopify Payments) | Vape merchant account |
|---|---|---|
| Underwriting appetite | Vape excluded under acceptable use policy | Vape underwritten explicitly, scheme-registered where required |
| Account stability | Reviewable at any time once the product is identified | Stable when contractually supported and ratios are managed |
| Pricing approach | Standard low-risk rate | Higher processing rate priced for chargeback and regulatory exposure |
| Rolling reserve | Not applied unless dispute issues arise post-launch | Common at 5–10% rolling over 90–180 days |
| Age verification at checkout | Not integrated | Required, with an audited vendor connected to the gateway |
| Settlement risk if reviewed | Funds held up to 180 days at closure | Reserve releases on schedule when the account stays inside agreed thresholds |
In practice you don't really sign up for a standalone merchant account. You sign up for three things that have to fit together:
- A gateway — the checkout layer that sends card data through to the bank.
- A bank (the acquirer) — settles your funds into your business account.
- The underlying scheme registrations — the permissions that allow nicotine products through.
Get one of those layers wrong and the whole thing falls over. Most retailers confuse these layers when they shop on price.
Why PayPal, Stripe, Square and Shopify Payments shut vape merchants down
Stripe, PayPal, Square and Shopify Payments exclude vape on purpose, not by oversight. Stripe's acceptable use policy bans "e-cigarettes, e-liquid or vaporisers" outright. PayPal's user agreement bans "tobacco products and e-cigarettes". Square's UK terms exclude tobacco and vape. Shopify Payments inherits Stripe's rules and excludes the category for the same reason.
The thing that makes these processors easy to sign up to is the same thing that means they can't keep vape retailers long term. They're built around a single low-risk merchant base with predictable disputes. Taking on vape would mean separate scheme registrations, separate audit obligations and absorbing the dispute spikes across the rest of their book. They've decided it isn't worth it.
The pattern most vape retailers eventually live through looks like this. You sign up as "retail" or "wellness" and trade for a few weeks. Then the product photos on the site, the descriptor on a customer's bank statement, or a routine chargeback review surfaces what you actually sell. A settlement hold lands. Documents are requested. Seven to thirty days later a closure notice arrives, usually with a rolling reserve of up to 180 days attached. Reapplying on the same processor is rarely productive once the closure is on file.
The honest framing matters. Standard processors aren't missing a feature for vape retailers — the contract you signed says they can close you, and at some point they will. A few weeks of acceptance isn't approval. It's the window before someone in their underwriting team takes a closer look.
If you're already on one of these processors and waiting for the inevitable closure email, the pattern alone is reason enough to plan a controlled move now. Moving before closure keeps your customer data, your saved card tokens (the ones that matter for refills and subscriptions) and your standing in front of the next bank intact. Moving after closure is harder, because you then have to disclose the closure to whoever comes next.
Shopify Payments is the layer most retailers misunderstand. Shopify the platform is fine for vape catalogues, but Shopify Payments the gateway is closed. Vape retailers running on Shopify use an external gateway like Worldnet or NMI connected to a vape-friendly acquirer behind it. That works. It just costs more than running on Shopify Payments natively, which is one of the trade-offs of choosing Shopify as a front end.
If you are on Stripe, PayPal, Square or Shopify Payments and processing vape sales, the closure is a matter of when, not if. Speak to a specialist about planning a controlled move before a reserve gets applied.
Why acquirers classify vape and e-cigarette merchants as high-risk
Banks look at the industry first and the individual business second. Vape sits in the high-risk book for four overlapping reasons. If you understand them, you can put together an application that lands at the better end of each.
Regulatory volatility. The Tobacco and Related Products Regulations (TRPR) control how vape products are sold, labelled, advertised and notified to the MHRA. The rules change. Nicotine caps, bottle sizes, flavour restrictions and packaging rules have all moved in the last decade and will move again. Banks price for that, because one rule change can make part of your catalogue non-compliant overnight.
Age-restricted product category. You can't sell vape to anyone under 18 in the UK. The retailer carries that obligation, but a failed age-verification audit catches the bank too — which is why the bank wants to see a real verification step at checkout, not "tick to confirm you're 18".
Chargeback exposure. Vape ecommerce gets more disputes than general retail. Customers contest unfamiliar names on their statement, return disposables claiming faults, dispute subscription renewals they signed up to months earlier, and sometimes use chargebacks to row back family arguments about the spending. None of that is unique to vape — it just concentrates in vape — and banks react quickly when the ratio creeps up.
Card-not-present concentration. Most vape revenue comes through ecommerce, not a counter. Online card payments carry more fraud risk than chip-and-PIN, and the bank prices that in. Retailers with a healthy in-store mix usually get slightly better online rates because the bank sees the channel split as less concentrated.
A common issue is that retailers take "high-risk" personally — as if a bank has read their accounts and decided they're a problem. It hasn't. The label is about the industry, not your business. What changes at the individual level is whether your application looks like the kind of vape retailer a bank wants to service, or the kind it will keep at arm's length on a bigger reserve.
Fees, rates and rolling reserves for vape merchants
Pricing for a vape merchant account is noticeably higher than the headline rates standard processors advertise — whether you're applying in the UK or in an EU jurisdiction. That isn't a markup. It's the bank pricing in the chargebacks, the scheme registration costs, the age-verification overheads and the simple reality that one bad audit can wipe out a year of margin.
Realistic ranges, not exact quotes, look like this for card-not-present vape volume (UK pricing shown in GBP — EU pricing in EUR sits in similar bands):
| Cost component | Typical range | What moves it |
|---|---|---|
| Processing rate (online debit/credit) | 1.9% to 3.5% plus interchange in some pricing models | Volume, processing history, chargeback ratio, product mix |
| Transaction fee | 10p to 25p per transaction | Pricing model (blended vs interchange-plus), gateway choice |
| Monthly minimum / service charge | £25 to £75 | Acquirer and ISO mark-up |
| Rolling reserve | 0% to 10% held over 90 to 180 days | History, average transaction value, product mix, dispute ratio |
| Setup fee | £0 to £500 | Acquirer policy, scheme registration requirements |
| Chargeback fee | £15 to £30 per dispute | Acquirer policy, dispute representation tool |
| Mastercard SMR scheme registration | ≈$500 per year | Pass-through scheme fee when registration applies |
The pieces that move the bill most are not always the headline rate. Reserve sizing, chargeback fees and minimums often dwarf small differences in processing percentage once you model it across a year.
- Headline rate is not total cost. A 2.0% rate with a 10% rolling reserve held for 180 days is more expensive in cash-flow terms than a 2.6% rate with no reserve.
- Reserves are negotiable as history accrues. Acquirers review reserve sizing at six-month intervals once trading data exists. Clean ratios usually unlock a reduction.
- Interchange-plus pricing rewards higher volume. Below roughly £30,000 monthly, blended pricing is usually simpler and cheaper to administer. Above that, interchange-plus starts to win.
- Chargeback fees compound fast. A 0.8% dispute ratio at 3,000 monthly transactions means 24 chargebacks. At £25 each, that is £600 a month before any scheme-programme fines apply.
- Mastercard scheme registration is a real cost. The ≈$500 annual fee for Mastercard's Specialty Merchant Registration applies per merchant when registration is required, and the fee is identical whether your acquiring bank is in the UK or anywhere in the EU.
What usually goes wrong on pricing is that retailers shop on the processing rate alone and forget to weigh the reserve and the monthly minimums. A common pattern: a retailer signs up to a "cheap" specialist offer with a 10% reserve held for 180 days, then realises six months in that half a percent of their gross sales has been locked up the whole time. The cheaper account on paper turns into the more expensive one in cash flow.
Quotes for UK and EU vape processing vary widely, and the headline rate rarely reflects total cost. Ask for a pricing indication against your actual volume, channel mix and history before you sign anywhere.
How to get approved for a vape merchant account
Approval for a vape merchant account is heavier than for a low-risk industry, but it isn't opaque. Banks are asking three questions:
- Does this business fit within our scheme registrations?
- Will the chargeback ratio stay inside the limits we can tolerate?
- Is the person behind the business credible enough to deal with problems when they come up?
A complete documentation pack, a clean processing history and a tidy website answer all three.
What banks look for
- Business model clarity. A clean description of what the business sells, where it ships and how it handles age-restricted products. Vague "wellness" framing hurts more than it helps. State that you sell vape and nicotine products and treat the application as a credibility exercise.
- Processing history. Three to six months of clean statements from a prior processor, with descriptor, refund and chargeback data. New businesses without history can still get approved, but the bar on the website, documentation and reserve sizing is higher.
- Website compliance. Age gate on entry, terms and conditions, refund policy, contact details, business address, full product descriptions, and clear restricted-sales language. Underwriters will pull up the site and walk through a test checkout.
- Age verification at checkout. An integrated age-assurance vendor (Yoti, 1Account, OneID or equivalent) connected to the gateway. Self-declared age gates aren't enough for serious underwriting.
- Documentation pack. Company registration documents (Companies House for UK businesses, or the equivalent national register for EU businesses), director ID and proof of address, business bank statements for the last three to six months, any processing statements you have, supplier invoices, and proof of TRPR (UK) or Tobacco Products Directive (EU) product notifications.
- Chargeback posture. Current dispute ratio, dispute tooling already in place, and any prior MATCH or TMF history disclosed up front. Hiding a prior closure is the fastest route to a fresh decline.
- Beneficial ownership and director history. Standard KYC checks on directors and shareholders above 25%. Adverse director histories slow applications down but rarely kill them on their own.
How long approval takes
Approval timing depends almost entirely on the quality of your application. With a complete pack on day one and same-day answers to underwriter follow-ups, it moves fast. With drip-fed documents, it doesn't.
Here at Merchant Advice we aim to get vape merchants live within 3 to 5 working days. That timeline can extend if the underwriter raises further checks or asks for additional documentation.
If you have already been declined elsewhere, or have a prior closure to disclose, your application still works. Check approval chances before you re-apply anywhere. Repeated declines on the same documentation slow down everyone you talk to next.
Reserves, terminations and operational continuity
Rolling reserves, frozen funds and the risk of termination are what running a vape merchant account actually feels like month to month. They're not edge cases. They sit on the balance sheet and decide how much cash you have to hold back.
- A rolling reserve is a slice of every transaction the bank holds back for a fixed window. 5% to 10% over 90 to 180 days is typical. The bank releases the reserve at the back end of the window, so your cash flow lags revenue by three to six months. Seasonal retailers feel this more than steady ones.
- The reserve size gets reviewed. Banks usually review it every six months. A clean chargeback record gets the reserve down. A record trending the wrong way pushes it up, sometimes by another five percentage points. Plan for both directions.
- Visa and Mastercard set dispute thresholds. Visa's Acquirer Monitoring Programme (VAMP) flags merchants at a 2.2% excessive ratio, and Mastercard's Excessive Chargeback programme triggers at 1.5%. Crossing those bands triggers reserve increases, monthly scheme fines, a mandatory clean-up plan, and a defined window before termination becomes the bank's preferred outcome.
- Termination triggers are concrete and visible. Breach the dispute thresholds for too long, fail an age-verification audit, ignore a fix the card schemes have required, attract regulatory action, or get caught misrepresenting something on the original form. None of these happen silently — the bank flags them well before pulling the plug.
- Frozen funds happen at closure. If the account is terminated, settlement pauses and the rolling reserve is held for the contractual window — usually 180 days. You will get it back, but it ties up cash at exactly the moment the business needs it.
- A MATCH or TMF listing follows a termination for five years. Mastercard's MATCH file and Visa's Terminated Merchant File flag you to every future bank that looks. You can still get approved — just on harder terms, because the next bank prices in the listing.
- A back-up acquirer keeps you trading if your primary pauses you. Higher-volume vape retailers increasingly run a second bank behind the same gateway. If the primary pauses settlement during a review, traffic flips to the back-up rather than stopping. The cost is small. The continuity benefit isn't.
- Monitoring chargebacks is on you, not the bank. The bank expects you to watch dispute ratios as they happen, not learn about them at month-end. Tooling expected at the gateway: 3D Secure 2, AVS, real-time velocity rules, device fingerprinting, dispute alerts (Ethoca, Verifi RDR/CDRN) and pre-arbitration representation workflows. These are now the baseline, not a premium add-on.
In practice, the retailers who keep trading through the rough patches are the ones who check their reserve and dispute numbers monthly. The ones who get terminated are usually the ones who only notice the ratio creeping up when the bank phones them. The gap between those two habits often decides whether a vape business has a stable payments setup or a fragile one.
UK regulatory compliance for vape retailers
UK regulation is what banks care about most when underwriting a vape retailer here. The compliance work isn't optional — a bank will check the basics are in place before any rate conversation gets serious.
European retailers operate under their member state's implementation of the EU Tobacco Products Directive. The directive mirrors most of the UK framework below, but always check your jurisdiction for specifics on nicotine caps, labelling and product notification — the standards a European bank applies are built around your local rules, not the UK ones.
Tobacco and Related Products Regulations (TRPR). TRPR governs how vape products are notified, manufactured, sold, labelled, advertised and packaged in the UK. Refillable tank capacity is capped at 2ml, e-liquid bottle volume at 10ml for nicotine-containing products, and nicotine strength at 20mg/ml. Notification to the MHRA is required before products go on sale. Acquirers look for evidence that the catalogue notifications are current.
Age verification. Sales to under-18s are prohibited. Online retailers are expected to operate verified age-assurance at checkout, not just a self-declared age gate. The acquirer's underwriting team will usually walk through a test checkout to see what the experience looks like.
Advertising restrictions. Most paid advertising of nicotine-containing vape products is prohibited in the UK under the same regulations. Acquirers do not police your marketing channel by channel, but they do read your website, and overt promotional claims at checkout or in product copy raise flags.
Labelling and packaging. Health warnings, ingredient lists, nicotine content statements and child-resistant packaging are all governed. The acquirer reads the product pages and refund policy as part of the underwriting walk-through.
Disposables enforcement. The UK ban on single-use disposable vapes (effective 1 June 2025) makes it much harder to get approved if your mix is disposable-heavy. Banks want to see the catalogue already updated, not a forward-looking promise. Several EU member states are on similar trajectories — France's ban is in force, the Netherlands and Belgium have moved, and the Commission is consulting on broader EU-wide rules — so check your jurisdiction.
A common misunderstanding is that compliance with TRPR is the same as compliance with the acquirer's expectations. It is not. Legal-to-sell and processor-approved are different bars. An acquirer can decline a TRPR-compliant catalogue if the website, the age gate or the refund policy does not match the merchant agreement. Most compliance issues actually surface at the merchant agreement and website review stage, not at MHRA notification.
For ongoing industry-level guidance, the two UK trade bodies most worth following are the UK Vaping Industry Association (UKVIA) and the Independent British Vape Trade Association (IBVTA).
How to evaluate a specialist vape payment partner
"Which provider is best" is the wrong question. The right question is which provider fits your volume, channel mix, product scope and risk profile, and the evaluation framework below is how we shortlist on a real retailer's behalf.
| Evaluation dimension | What good looks like | Common trade-off |
|---|---|---|
| Vape underwriting experience | Acquirer has written vape contracts before, knows the TRPR landscape, and can describe their own dispute thresholds | Specialists often price slightly higher than generalists |
| UK or EU acquiring relationship | Funds settled locally in your jurisdiction, with a direct relationship to the bank rather than ISO routing | Direct relationships have stricter underwriting |
| Pricing transparency | Rate, transaction fee, monthly minimum, chargeback fee and reserve clearly stated up front | Transparent quotes are sometimes higher than opaque ones |
| Reserve terms | Reserve size and release window explicit in the contract, with a review cadence | Lower reserves usually mean higher rates |
| Dispute tooling | 3DS2, AVS, dispute alerts, representation workflow and ratio monitoring included or integrated | Premium tooling is sometimes priced as add-ons |
| Age-verification integration | Documented vendor at checkout, audit trail of approvals and exceptions | Some vendors add checkout friction |
| Recurring billing support | Tokenised card storage, scheduled charges and SCA-compliant authentication | Subscriptions raise the dispute exposure profile |
| Account stability track record | Vape merchants they can point to who have been live more than 18 months | Newer specialists do not yet have a track record |
| Ecommerce platform compatibility | Native or supported plugin for WooCommerce, Magento, BigCommerce or custom integrations | Shopify Payments is closed; only external gateways work on Shopify front ends |
| KYC and onboarding support | Named onboarding contact, document checklist provided up front, realistic timing | Hands-on onboarding is usually paired with stricter compliance review |
The dimensions that matter most depend on the retailer. For a high-volume retailer with disputes already running close to threshold, the dispute tooling and reserve terms matter more than the headline rate. For a brand-new retailer, onboarding support and account stability matter most. For a Shopify-fronted retailer, the integration question dominates everything else.
One mistake worth flagging: choosing the cheapest quote without checking acquirer stability. Some specialist offers come from acquirers with limited UK or EU presence, or aggressive pricing they later claw back through reserve increases. The cheapest contract on paper is sometimes the most expensive contract over twelve months.
- Treat the provider question as a portfolio decision, not a single-vendor decision. For higher-volume retailers, a primary acquirer plus a back-up acquirer routed through the same gateway is more resilient than relying on a single relationship.
- Read the contract on termination and reserve release. The notice period, the reserve release schedule, and the conditions that can trigger a reserve uplift matter more than the headline pricing.
- Check what the gateway looks like under the hood. An acquirer is only as accessible as the gateway in front of it. A poorly maintained gateway will cost more in lost conversions than the acquirer saves on rate.
- Ask for vape-specific references. A specialist that genuinely supports vape can point to live vape retailers on its book. A generalist pretending to support vape cannot.
Working out which acquirer fits your specific product mix, volume and history is the conversation we have with every new retailer. Get matched based on your business, not a generic specialist shortlist.
Card machines and POS for physical vape shops
For vape retailers with a physical presence, your card machines connect through the same acquirer that handles your online card payments rather than running as a separate system. Your hardware choice doesn't change whether a bank will approve you, but it does change the cost and reliability of in-store payments.
| Hardware type | Typical fit | Considerations |
|---|---|---|
| Countertop terminal | Fixed till point in a vape shop with consistent Ethernet or Wi-Fi | Reliable, lowest cost; requires a fixed counter setup |
| Portable terminal (Bluetooth or Wi-Fi) | Vape shops with floor walking or multiple till points | More flexible; battery management adds an operational task |
| Mobile terminal (4G/SIM-based) | Pop-up vape stalls, events, market stands | Higher per-transaction cost; useful only when site connectivity is poor |
| Integrated POS terminal | Vape retailers running stock control, multi-site reporting, loyalty | Higher hardware and software cost; tighter integration with back office |
Most vape shops do not need the most expensive POS on the market. They need a terminal that takes payments quickly, settles into your business bank account, and integrates with the same acquirer carrying your ecommerce volume. Splitting the acquirer between online and in-store usually creates more reporting work than it saves on rate.
Selling CBD, paraphernalia and adjacent categories
Product scope changes which acquirer can take your application. Vape, CBD and paraphernalia are three separate scheme treatments, and an acquirer who underwrites one may decline the next.
| Product category | Typical acquirer treatment | Implication for the merchant account |
|---|---|---|
| Vape and e-liquids (TRPR-notified) | High-risk, scheme registration where applicable | Underwritten on the vape merchant account directly |
| CBD products (UK Novel Food authorised) | High-risk, often a separate acquirer file | May require a separate MID, especially if CBD is a meaningful share of revenue |
| Paraphernalia (pipes, accessories not used for nicotine delivery) | Often refused or restricted by most high-risk acquirers | Specialist routing required; product mix can disqualify the application elsewhere |
| Adjacent wellness (vitamins, supplements) | Low-to-medium risk depending on health claims | Usually fine alongside vape; can sit on the same MID |
What most affects placement is the share of revenue each category carries. A vape retailer with 5% incidental CBD is usually fine on a single vape MID. A retailer with 40% CBD and 60% vape often needs two MIDs to keep both product lines on workable terms. The earlier this gets unpicked, the cleaner the application.
For deep coverage of CBD-specific underwriting, see our CBD payment gateway page.
How Merchant Advice helps
The fastest declines are usually self-inflicted. Most of what slows or kills a vape merchant account application is fixable before it ever reaches an underwriter — and that's the part of the process a broker exists to handle.
We are an independent broker, not an affiliate site. We pre-qualify the application against multiple UK and EU acquirers before submission, identify the gaps an underwriter would flag, route the application to the bank most likely to approve it on workable terms, and stay involved through onboarding rather than handing you off. Pricing comes from the bank, not from us. The initial call is free.
Conclusion
A vape merchant account is achievable — whether you're applying in the UK or in an EU jurisdiction. Standard processors are closed to you by contract, but a specialist bank that understands the vape industry, paired with the right gateway, a working age-verification setup and a clean compliance position, is a stable long-term home for your card payments.
The decision rarely comes down to one provider. It comes down to fit between your volume, history, channel mix, product scope and the bank's willingness to take you on at the moment you apply. That fit is what a broker exists to find.
Tell us about your business and we'll route your application to the UK or EU bank most likely to take it on workable terms. Speak to a vape payments specialist for an honest assessment, not a sales pitch.